Languages: Python?

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If you could add one other language, what would it be?

Poll ended at Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:56 am

Haskell
1
13%
Python
4
50%
Perl
0
No votes
Ruby
0
No votes
Scheme
0
No votes
ML
0
No votes
FORTRAN
0
No votes
JavaScript
1
13%
Other
2
25%
 
Total votes: 8

8502BB
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Languages: Python?

Post by 8502BB » Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:56 am

I jsut found this site today. I was pretty excited to look through some of the problems and there are some very interesting ones I would like to try. The idea that you could just upload your code and have it automatically checked is a great one, and one I think should generate a lot of interest, but when I looked to see what the submission form looked like, I was quite disappointed to see the set {C, C++, Java, Pascal}. :cry:

Wow... that is really limiting. Not only does it snub some of the more popular and recent scripting languages such as Python, Perl, PHP, Ruby, etc. is also thumbs it's nose at some of the more academic languages such as Haskell, Scheme, ML, Prolog, etc. :roll:

So... I know it would be difficult to support all of those I mentioned and impossible to please everybody, but I'm wondering if there are any plans to support Python at some time?

I'm not sure how VOJ works internally, but given Python's relatively good nature about integrating with other tools, I wonder if there wouldn't be some relatively easy way to leverage the test harnesses you already have to judge code via Python?

Would love to submit Python solutions and compete here. It has served me well for several years now and I can accomplish a lot more with fewer lines of code than C, C+, Java (and it has been so long since I have used Pascal, I can't do anything it).

What do you think? :lol:

Thanks,
An eager Pythonista

misof
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Post by misof » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:12 am

You may be interested in a similar site that already supports Python: http://www.spoj.pl/

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Post by 8502BB » Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:08 pm

I took a brief look - looks somewhat similar. So, thank you for that reference. I suppose the good news is that then we know this sort of thing is definitely possible - how about acm.uva.es coordinating with SPOJ to figure out what is necessary to support Python and widening UVA's userbase? :)

Thanks!

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Post by Darko » Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:15 pm

Now that would make sense, wouldn't it? :)

But I can't see it happen - I don't know anyone involved personally, so I might be way off but, from my experience, egos are a huge factor and will never let it happen. Recent posts on TC kind of reinforce my feelings regarding the cooperation among the people running similar sites (at least in my case, maybe I am just too pessimistic in general).

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Post by little joey » Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:19 pm

I think you're right, Darko. At least at TC money is involved, and money and friends don't go together. And then there's the ego part...

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Post by Darko » Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:25 pm

Well, I mentioned TC just because the posts were there, but they were about UVa and some Russian site that provides similar funcionality to UVa. I never checked that particular site, but I did check SPOJ and being able to submit in zillion different languages is really something. And they have a decent set of problems, too.

UVa has the best problem archive, that's for sure, but they are years behind other sites in terms of usability for one reason or another. And they shouldn't be - unless ACM is just paying a lip service to them and they are on their own (which is probably the case).

Well, ACM still uses pc^2... :)

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Post by 8502BB » Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:57 pm

I am quite new to this site and this world... what is TC?

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Post by Darko » Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:06 pm


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Post by Carlos » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:59 pm

Darko wrote:UVa has the best problem archive, that's for sure, but they are years behind other sites in terms of usability for one reason or another. And they shouldn't be - unless ACM is just paying a lip service to them and they are on their own (which is probably the case).
If we had some good people in Valladolid interested to join us that would be different. I remind you that our team consists on 3 persons: Miguel, his son and I. Miguel is a teacher at University of Valladolid; his son is a freelance who wouldn't spend much time in a meaningless project, and I.....I work in Madrid 10 hours a day, and I do some minor changes in my part time. It's a huge project for the three of us.

About the functionalities.....in theory the new system will allow any programming language available. There will be no security issues, so there won't be any limitations in the functions or libraries used. That question is: when is that system coming? I don't dare to say a date. Miguel Jr is doing its best with the new system while Miguel and I give support to the current system and take care of the algorithmic part.

I sometimes feel like I'm giving the same excuses once and again...;)

PS: I move this topic to "General", since I won't have to close it there.
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Post by 8502BB » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:33 pm

By the way, I did not mean to slight C# or any other particular language in my survey - I had a substantially longer list originally but the buddy board rejected my post because of too many options, so I trimmed out a number that I thought were less popular without a lot of forethought.

I don't mean for this to turn into any sort of a language war, but I am curious to hear about the other languages that people use and the ones they really wish they could use here. Perhaps people that fall in the "other" category can add a note about what that other is and why they think it would be a good one for UVa to (maybe?) eventually support?

I thought it was rather... umm... "amusing" that Top Coder puts Visual Basic on the same footing with Java, C++, and C#. They also have a very limited selection of languages.

Thanks, Carlos, for moving this article and thanks for the time you and the Miguels put into supporting this - even though I am brand new here, I know such projects can eat up a great deal of time and it is sometimes a thankless job, and you often only hear complaints, not praise.

I hope you realize that by my approaching the subject, I mean it in the spirit of "You guys have a neat thing here that I really wish I could use Python with" rather than "This thing stinks because it doesn't support Python." (I think Python is a great language, but I'm sure there are other people out there that wish they could use whatever their pet language is for some of these problems too.)

I know there are a lot of sharp people in the Python community (and others) - I hope that you will consider engaging them in your site by giving them a route to participate in their language of choice. :wink:

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Post by misof » Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:06 am

8502BB wrote:I thought it was rather... umm... "amusing" that Top Coder puts Visual Basic on the same footing with Java, C++, and C#. They also have a very limited selection of languages.
The reason for including VB at TopCoder is that it's simply another .NET language, so adding it once they had C# required almost no effort. (Almost nobody is using it, anyway, but why not give the option if it costs you nothing? ;) )

Also, TopCoder did already support Python when they organized the last few Google CodeJams. It should only be a matter of time until Python is available in TopCoder's own contests.

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Post by Darko » Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:28 am

Python is already supported in Marathon Matches on TC.

TC is something else -- it makes sense to include VB as a language, because it is actually used in "industry" (TC has different targets - maybe not that different, but they are at least open about it). Whatever we think about VB does not really matter. We don't pay their bills (People that have VB programmers on their payroll do).

Carlos: I appreciate what you guys are doing, but wouldn't it actually make sense to contact the people that are running other contest sites and join the effort? Of course, then you would have to share the credit, too. I don't know if they would be willing to do it, but apparently UVa is not even considering it. And you said yourself that running the Archive is too time consuming for three of you. So I am confused, yes.

It just occured to me that I don't know which Revilla posted on TC forums (I just assumed it was Prof. Revilla). That was a... weird post, to say the least.

And - under "others" in the poll above I meant "Java" :P

P.S. Maybe this thread should go into "Other words" or something - "General" is just a spam bin, as far as I am concerned.

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Post by Carlos » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:13 pm

Darko wrote:Carlos: I appreciate what you guys are doing, but wouldn't it actually make sense to contact the people that are running other contest sites and join the effort? Of course, then you would have to share the credit, too. I don't know if they would be willing to do it, but apparently UVa is not even considering it. And you said yourself that running the Archive is too time consuming for three of you. So I am confused, yes.
It makes sense. I think TopCoder is not a possibility; since they paid for the rights of the problems, I don't think they will share them.

The software part is stalled until the new system is released.

About the algoritmic part....

- In the Live Archive, if RCD's were a little more cooperative we wouldn't have such a hard work. Last year we "praised" the RCD's for some test data for their problems, but a few of them have replied. In this year WF we'll keep doing this "seek and pray" task. We'll aslo re-re-re-reask Bill Poucher to tell the RCDs to make a secondary test for their regional problems so that we can use them. Anyway, we've considered the possibility of exchanging datasets with other OJ who might have some own-created dataset for the problems. We contacted some of them, and during the WF we'll try to talk to some of them.

- In the online judge, I think everything is going smoothly. New problems are being added while old ones are being corrected. There are a few problems without dataset, but I don't think other judges might help. If we didn't have so many open fronts we would be able to create dasets for them ourselves!!

In resume...we're open to other OJ collaborations, even if it means sharing the credits...but we can only collaborate in the algorithmic part for the moment. Not the software part since it's unstable.
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Post by goodwill1120 » Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:28 pm

I really think at least should include the 2 popular dynamic languages: Python and Ruby. They are very good to be used for algorithm/general programming training as there are lots of shorthand to allow programmers just have fun and do what they suppose to do. ACM is the famous cornerstone of such competition, so even ppl told me about SPOJ I still hope UVa could do ruby (I am now a big fan of ruby as you can tell :P)

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